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Speaker 1: You think that empathy modules are indispensable for machines and robots of the future, why?

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Speaker 2: Because we are going to have robots in our lives.

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They are going to work with us, they are going to take care of us.

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So for us to be able to trust them, we need to build a relationship with the robot.

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Studies have show that for us to work with robots we do need robots to understand our intention and emotion

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and not just what we say. It's not just a command and control kind of machine.

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Speaker 1: Aren't current robots good enough in that respect?

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Speaker 2: No, because they take your commands literally right now. They don't understand what you really mean.

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You can say the same thing and in different tones and with different gesture it will mean something totally different.

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Suppose you have a robot that is taking care of the elderly and the robot says "how are you doing today"

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and you say "I'm not sure." If the robot understands you literally, it just means you are not sure

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and the robot will just take off and walk away.

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But it really means, what the [inaudible 00:01:12] really is that the patient

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or the elderly person is not feeling that great.

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So that robot has to deduce that intention and emotion from what you are saying,

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how you are saying it in order to take care of us better..

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Speaker 1: And currently robots aren't ..

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Speaker 2: No they are not able to do that yet, we are working on making them to do that.

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Speaker 1: What made you actually want to introduce empathy in robots?

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Speaker 2: Because I believe that in the future we are going to need robots to take care of people,

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to take care of the young, to educate us, to help us with a lot of work.

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Since we're going to have them around us I think it is important that they're more human like in their empathy..

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Speaker 1: Why are empathy modules indispensable for lets say .. Tomorrow's robots?

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Speaker 2: We want robots to be intelligent, right?

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Intelligent robots needs to have both the cognitive intelligence and also emotional intelligence.

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This is what we humans have. When we communicate with each other, we use our emotional intelligence all the time.

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That is indispensable for understanding each other.

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For robots to understand us, they need to have that kind of emotional intelligence, which is empathy.

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Speaker 1: Because robots aren't capable of doing that?

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Speaker 2: No, not yet. Current robots is most of the time still controlled by explicit commands.

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For example you can tell a robot to vacuum your room.

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In some restaurants there are robot waiters that will bring you food and they are focused very narrowly on one task.

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They are not that much more advanced than your vacuum cleaner now

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or the rice cooker.	Current robots don't have that kind of emotional intelligence but there are some robots.

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They're putting this in some robots and we are starting to see them..

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Speaker 1: Why would we need intelligent emotion .. Emotional intelligence for machines?

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Speaker 2: So that they can work with us better. They can help us better.

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If they need to take care of us, take care of our children, our elderly,

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they really need to understand our true intent emotion in order to take care of us.	Say if you go to the hospital

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there's a nurse and what is a nurse does is not just to take your temperature and look at your vital signs

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but also talk to you and see how you are doing and whether you need comforting, whether need water,

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whether you need medicine at this point in time, so that requires emotional intelligence and it requires empathy.

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Speaker 1: Is it because they are becoming closer to us or because there is a difference of environment?

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Speaker 2: Yes the robots are coming more into our lives, into our daily lives and there will be more robots around us.

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If they don't have emotional intelligence they are more likely to make mistakes and even hurt us.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of different kinds of emotions.

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What kind of emotions should they express or should they at least recognize?

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Speaker 2: For example the very first thing we're working on for robots to recognize includes whether the human is

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happy, angry, sad, or frustrated or hesitating or even sense of humor.

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One of my students is working on recognizing sense of humor.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the range of emotion. Of course there are a different kinds of emotions.

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What is the let's say the primary emotion that they should recognize?.

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Speaker 2: The primary emotions are happiness, sad .. Sadness, and anger, and neutral.

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So you have to be able to tell whether the person is happy. Happy means satisfied, not satisfied, not happy.

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Sad, needs help, maybe frustrated.

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Angry, so if the person is angry at the robot, the robot should have to do something in response..

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Speaker 1: But people can be ironic or .. [crosstalk 00:05:25]

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Speaker 2: Right, we're also working on for robots to understand a sense of humor and sarcasm,

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we're working on that because we use humor and sarcasm in our daily communications to deflect the situation

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or challenge or to make a conversation more friendly, to make things go more smoothly.

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Robots need to learn to recognize that.

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Speaker 1: Even for people it is sometimes difficult to recognize [crosstalk 00:05:58] a robot to recognize that..

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Speaker 2: Indeed .. So we're teaching robots to watch a lot of comedy shows to learn sense of humor.

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It's machine learning so we think that if we let the robot watch a lot of comedy shows

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and observe how people communicate with each other, the so called big-data analytics and use machine learning,

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then they will be able to learn..

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Speaker 1: So you teach them actually by letting them watch ..

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Speaker 2: We feed comedy shows and movies and yes. And people's daily communications.

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A lot of YouTube videos, we feed these to the robot..

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Speaker 1: Should it also express somehow ..

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Speaker 2: Yes that's very, it is important.

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Studies have shown that humans feel more related to a machine that has some facial expressions right?

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That's why we don't really feel a connection to our refrigerator.

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or our rice cooker because they are just machines.	When you see a robot with a cute face, people start going ..

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They start talking to the robot in a more human way. They go "so how are you doing" and stuff like that.

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Embodiment of the machine with a robotic body with facial expressions is important.

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That is also an important area,

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different researchers are working on that to allow robots to generate appropriate facial expressions,

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appropriate gestures, for example to say "hi" or to shake you hand and all that..

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Speaker 1: Because of tone of voice ...

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Speaker 2:  [crosstalk 00:07:36] The tone of voice also from the [crosstalk 00:07:36] .. Is very important too

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Speaker 1: Some of you say that a robot should not alone learn to understand the content of speak

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but it should it also compare it with the way it is delivered. Can you explain it?

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Speaker 2: So if I say something like,

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"I'm really happy I'm going to work today," you probably think that I'm truly happy that I'm going to work today..

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But if I say "I'm really happy I'm going to work today ..

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" Even though the words I speak are the same, the emotion is totally different.

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In the second case you know I'm being sarcastic and I'm not really feeling like going to work.

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So the tone of voice is important.	We use tone of voice in our way of expressing our meaning a lot.

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Speaker 1: But how do you teach a robot to do that?

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Speaker 2: So again the difference is we teach the robot to listen, again, to different kind of tone of voice.

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We show a robot examples of the same sentences in angry voice, happy voice, and nervous voice, and frustrated voice.

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We tell the robot "Look this is the kind of voice that expresses anger,

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this is the kind of voice that expresses frustration" and the robot learns.

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Speaker 1: Somehow we learned that as children.

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Speaker 2: Yes we did, we do as children.

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Speaker 1: How does the robot learn that?

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Speaker 2: So children have multiple sensor input, right?

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Children perceive the world not just by what people are saying, how they are saying, but they also look at things.

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So right now we are working towards enabling robots to have multiple sensory input as well.

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So the robot now learns from the speech you're saying, what you're saying,

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but also learns from how you're saying it.	We also enable the robot to look at your facial expression

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when you say it so that enable the robot to learn better.

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Speaker 1: As a child you learn by experience, a robot learns by experience?

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: As a child you can be traumatized by experience.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: What about robots? Is it possible somehow to get robot trauma?..

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Speaker 2: Robot trauma I would say .. Robot can be mislead. Okay, if you feed robot some information ..

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It's like how we teach our children. Robots can be traumatized too because they are machines.

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Machine can have machine errors, either from the embedded coding, the program or from experience,

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meaning the data they learned from.

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Speaker 1: It's a different kind of trauma than the human trauma.

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Speaker 2: They can be lead astray and then they can have errors. Is it different from human trauma?

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It's different, machine trauma, I will say.

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Speaker 1: Children can be dysfunctional because of they're trauma or can't behave very well.

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I mean, what about robots?

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Speaker 2: Robots can be dysfunctional, they can stop functioning properly if they have had a machine error.

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If the error is caused by they're experience you can call that trauma. They can be traumatized into misbehaving indeed.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be grumpy?

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Speaker 2: Grumpiness means they work slowly or they don't respond friendly in the friendly manner,

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they may not even answer. You can perceive that as grumpiness, then machines can be grumpy, yes.

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Speaker 1: You also think that robots should apologize somehow?

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Speaker 2: Of course!

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Speaker 1: What do you mean by robots should be apologize?

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Speaker 2: Robots make errors like humans do.

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These days when there is a machine error, you might just see a blue screen and it just says,

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"machine error 404." That is not very friendly, we cannot have robots do that.

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Machines are bound to make errors, there's not going to a perfect machine that never makes errors.

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Just like humans,

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there are no perfect humans that never make any mistake.	It is important for empathetic machine to apologize like

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humans do because that will keep the communications smooth. That will keep the conversation continue with a human user..

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Speaker 1: Because that is actually the most important thing to keep [inaudible 00:12:05]

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Speaker 2: Indeed yes it is most important to keep the conversation smooth and the human/robot communication smooth.

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Speaker 1: But somehow you suggest that you should feel happy with your robot. Is that correct, am I correct?

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Speaker 2: Humans should feel happy

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when they are communicating with the robot at least they can feel related to the robot in a friendly sort of way.

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It is important for humans to feel that in order for us to trust the robot, to work with the robot.

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Speaker 1: We develop a character if we are born we have sort of character or maybe genetically.

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But we give out the character because, well experience we have.

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Can a robot develop a character as well in your opinion, your model?

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Speaker 2: So, when we built empathetic robots we are very careful in also designing the robot personality.

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This is what we call robot personality. In the beginning we will be designing the personality.

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This is similar to human predisposed personality we're born with.	As we go on we also let the robot learn personality

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from data, so from particular personality type.

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For example,

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a robot can imitate a particular persons personality type over time by observing how that person communicates with

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other people.	A robot can also be nurtured into developing it's personality.

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Speaker 1: So you have a discussion and you use for example where is nature [crosstalk 00:13:39] nurture.

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What about robot?

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Speaker 2: Robot also. There's a nature and nurture. So nature, robot nature comes from our laboratories right?

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Comes from the design of robot by humans, by engineers that's the nature..

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That's when robot comes out of lab and robot has that personality.	But then as we ...

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Since robots have machine learning algorithms in them, they will also learn from particular kind of ..

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You know, they will learn from the environment, and then they will continue to develop their personality.	For example,

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the beginning we ensure that the robot is not racist. That is predisposed what we design at the beginning.

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Over time when the robot sees whatever is out in the world, there can be racist comments and all that

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but the robot will reject that and will not absorb that into the robots personality.

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The robot will make a judgment to say "oh, that is racist and I should not learn that.".

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Speaker 1: That suggests that you put moral codes into the robot ..

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Speaker 2: In the beginning, yeah, in the beginning we need to teach robot values and personality.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't it depend on what kind of culture you sit in?

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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[crosstalk 00:14:57] So the people who work on robots, we all have this responsibility,

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we're all like parents to robots.

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Parents to our children, we indeed in the beginning we do teach our robots in certain ways, with certain code.

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Then we let them run.

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Very much like how we nurture our children when they reach adulthood we just let them go.	In fact

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when they're younger we send them to schools so we don't always teach them everything ourselves.

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We send them to school, we send them out into the world, they learn from the environment,

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so that's what we do with robots.

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Speaker 1: You talk a little bit as if it's becoming a person somehow..

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Speaker 2: Robot is .. So we're building robots to be a little bit more like us, more like a person indeed.

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Because humans can communicate with another human being better. We cannot ask humans to speak the robot language right?

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So we the robot to speak our language, and understand us.

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With that the personality thing, the robot values,

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that is all necessary in order for us to communicate with the robot better.

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Speaker 1: Do robots have a sort of self image in terms of I can think about myself?

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What do robots think about itself as well?

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Speaker 2: The robot can certainly be taught to think about itself yes or shows the behavior of thinking about itself.

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Meaning that robot can simulate the behavior somebody who's thinking about itself.

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Whether their is consciousness within the robot we don't know because we don't understand consciousness.

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Speaker 1: That's what everybody's saying, "yeah you can program it but it's always pre-programmed.".

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Speaker 2: It's not always pre-programmed. There's certain things ..

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So this is what I was trying to say, we pre-program our machine learning way.

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So we pre-program Robots to learn, just like humans are also programmed to learn.	Part of it is pre-programmed.

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This is what we call nature.

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That pre-programming also allows the robot to learn,

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to pick up from the physical world from interacting with human beings for their knowledge

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and for their personality even.

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Speaker 1: How can we monitor that?

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Speaker 2: Can we monitor them?..

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Speaker 1: I mean we monitor people, we tell people to not behave like that .. Good impression ..

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Sort of punishment on bad behavior for example..

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Speaker 2: Different robots, depending on the purposes ...

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If they are supposed to take care of patients and they make mistakes then we think there's going to be ..

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There must be a machine error, then we will check the machine, we check the code

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and try to spot that error.	We don't really punish robot per se at this point

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but it can be imagined that in some learning algorithms we can incorporate what is a reward

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and what is punishment so that they learn proper things.

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Speaker 1: For example there is a discussion about autonomous cars for example [crosstalk 00:18:10] who is responsible?.

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When robots come closer you'll get the same kind of question because they can harm or somehow .. [crosstalk 00:18:20].

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Speaker 2: Indeed, indeed ..

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If they accidentally harm somebody you say "you know, robot you shouldn't do that" and they should learn from that.

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Punishment perhaps not like human punishment, I don't we can hit the robot

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and the robot will feel "ooh," not that kind of punishment.

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It's in the algorithm that there's a cause function, whether they are doing the right thing or not.

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There will be a cause function of positive and negative values.

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Speaker 1: What's your wildest dreams in terms of robots?

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Speaker 2: My wildest dreams is to have my memory, my sensory abilities, my intelligence,

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my emotional intelligence whatever it is all be downloaded to a robot with an android body

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and then that robot will continue functioning as me when I'm no longer in this world..

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Speaker 1: You want to make a copy of yourself basically ..

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Speaker 2: I want to make a copy of myself, that will be interesting.

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Speaker 1: Are you think that's feasible?

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Speaker 2: I think to some extent we're already doing that..

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I'm not sure it's feasible within my lifetime but I think it is feasible.	The robot will have ..

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Will be equipped with our perception abilities, and our intelligence, our emotional intelligence,

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and our ability to learn.

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The people who build the robot with really like form with very lifelike skin and eyes and all that..

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When we put this together the robot will have the ..

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Will be embodied in an almost human like body so they will pick up signals from the world as we do.

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I think that is feasible.	I'm not saying that will be me, that will be just a copy of me

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and that will not necessarily have the conscious of me. I'm not talking about me living forever.

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I'm talking about a copy.

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Speaker 1: But what would it be?

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Speaker 2: What would it be, a very good question. A copy. Just enjoy as a copy of a human.

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Speaker 1: What would a copy of you mean? What would it do?

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Speaker 2: It would do what I would do under given circumstances.

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For example, maybe it can go and lecture in the university, teach students.

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It can learn like I do from the world, maybe it can perform research. It can build other robots..

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Speaker 1: But it won't be you ..

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Speaker 2: It will not be me it will be a copy of me.

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Speaker 1: But suppose it would be a copy of you, would it develop it's own consciousness? It's quite hard to imagine.

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Speaker 2: I know, I know. We don't know what consciousness is right. It's almost a philosophical question.

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Does it exist?

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Once we have all this kind of sensory input intelligence

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and learning in place would there be a point where there is indeed a consciousness?	I don't know. I don't know.

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We don't know what consciousness it and where it comes from.

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Speaker 1: In terms of the old philosopher, let's say that you could say that robots [inaudible 00:21:37]

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I think so I am.

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Speaker 2: Yes indeed. I think so I am. Indeed, indeed.

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A robot can conclude that but even then the robot can have the behavior of someone with consciousness.

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We still don't know what really has this "me-ness' this self consciousness.

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Speaker 1: If you look, let's say in 25 years, what would robots life look like in your perception?.

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Speaker 2: So in 25 years I believe there will be robots .. Not all robots, some robots will look just like us.

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They will talk just like us and behave just like us. It's possible in 25 years.

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They can move and gesture exactly like humans. Some of these robots, these are called androids will be very very um ....

249
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You cannot tell the difference between them and humans.	Then there are other robots.

250
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We still need other robots to help us, other robotic machines like the vacuum cleaner.

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The vacuum cleaner is not going to have a human head that would be kind of creepy.

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So we still have other robots that don't look like humans, so there will be a variety of robots among us.

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Speaker 1: You are working to make it into a reality.

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When you expose this scientific work, what's the response from people?

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Speaker 2: Some people feel threatened. Some people question why robots need to be more human like.

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They think that then they will be challenging us and taking over us..

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Others like especially children think it's just really cool. They want to .. They cannot wait for that to happen.

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I think depending on the culture people come from and what they expect of machines, they have different reactions.

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For the most part, for example I talk to doctors, medical doctors

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and they love the idea that robots will have empathy towards patients so that they can better take care of patients.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine that people somehow become scared or afraid?

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Speaker 2: Some people are already scared. Some people are already scared of robots.

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I think when people see robots become more human like they imagine all sorts of things.

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I think one reason is there has been too many science fiction movies that portray robots as threatening and menacing.

265
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but that's just science fiction. People shouldn't be .. People should not be swayed by fiction.

266
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Working under reality we're all building robots to help people.

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Nobody's building robots to purposely destroy human kind and that kind of thing...

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Speaker 1:  [inaudible 00:24:26] .. Let's robots be compelling and empathetic ..

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Speaker 2: We're trying to build robots that are friendly.

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If robots have empathy, then they will never harm people, right? That's why empathy is important.

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If they do have empathy they will never hurt us.

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Speaker 1: There are some robots laws made by Isaac [inaudible 00:24:44] [crosstalk 00:24:46].

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Speaker 2: The three laws of robotics .. I don't remember all of them..

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Speaker 1: But actually one of them is to help people ...

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Speaker 2: Yeah to help people and not to harm ..

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Speaker 1: That's your purposes.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, indeed. So one of the three laws of robotics is for robots to help people.

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I think all the robots that are being worked on today are trying to do that.

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Speaker 1: Could you imagine that people start to see robots, if they are so friendly as a friend? Really as a friend?

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Speaker 2: I hope so, I hope people will see robots as friends because they're friendly.

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If we can see robots as friends we can trust them to help us.

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Speaker 1: They are friends forever? Companions somehow?

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Speaker 2: We are building robots to be people's companion.

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To be companions to children, to be companions to the elderly when they're lonely and all that.

285
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Like all machines, the hardware deteriorates right?.

286
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So, your iPhone or your smartphone, you might buy the next generation smartphone ..

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So robots, are we going to have a robot that lasts forever? I don't think right now that's the purpose.

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So you might have the next generation of the same robot,

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but that robot will have the same personality as the first robot and will have the memory.	So yeah,

290
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in that sense you can have a robot companion forever. But the body might have to be changed from time to time.

291
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Speaker 1: If you were wanting can it be copied to another robot or how can you imagine that?

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Speaker 2: The intelligence of robot is completely software based. We can make multiple copies of the same software.

293
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We can have the same robot, same personality, same memory, in different robotic bodies.

294
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So we can have multiple robots that sound the same, behave the same, and do the same thing.

295
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Speaker 1: And copy their experience?

296
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Speaker 2: And copy the experience because it's software based.

297
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Speaker 1: Somehow people love their machines like they love their cars.

298
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They start loving their robot as well, probably.

299
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Speaker 2: I think people will love their robots if the robots are friendly, empathetic, cool, have a sense of humor,

300
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who wouldn't love them?

301
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People will love them like they love their motorcycles

302
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and their cars indeed.	But they also might want to have multiple robots,

303
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a different version with a different personality just like some people like multiple cars of different styles.

304
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Speaker 1: Do you think we are prepared for those kinds of problems?

305
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Speaker 2: I think people are prepared, we've already seen men on the moon 40-50 years ago.

306
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It's high time we see robots among us and I think people are ready for robots as long as they are friendly.

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Speaker 1: Language is very important and the intention of language. Explain a little bit of what you're doing..

308
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Speaker 2: What we're doing is um .. For example us the example of humor as I explained before.

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Humor comes from not just the words you use but the tone of voice and even your facial expressions.

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The same word expressed in different context can be humorous and not humorous.

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So what we do is,

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we program machines to have learning algorithms so they learn from watching a lot of comedy shows for example

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and YouTube videos

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and figure out what humor is.	So next time somebody says something humorous they machine will know

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and to be able to laugh for example.

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Speaker 1: How do they know that it's funny?

317
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Speaker 2: How do they know it's funny? From learning.

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The learning algorithms enable the machine to see examples, many many examples, millions of sentences..

319
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Thousands and tens of thousands of TV shows where people laugh. For example, humor consists of ..

320
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How do you tell a joke? Usually there's a setup, a trigger, and a punch line.

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The machine will see that in all these comedy shows like humans do and then they will pick up

322
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when there will be a punch line and they know that is humor.	The machine algorithm,

323
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learning algorithm we use currently is what is commonly known as deep learning algorithms.

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Speaker 1: How does this robot learn what's humorous?

325
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Speaker 2: We use machine learning to teach robots to learn about our emotion sentiments including humor.

326
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Machine learning there are two kinds of machine learning approaches.

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One is what we call supervised learning the other is unsupervised.	Supervised learning we actually give machines

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examples and we have the data annotated by humans.

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Humans say, "look, this is a sentence that's humorous," "this is a sentence that's a punchline for a joke,"

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and "this is where people laugh." That's called supervised learning

331
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and machines learn from that to have a sense of humor.	Unsupervised learning is more like how humans learn.

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We don't tell the machine explicitly this is a humor, this is not humorous, we give the machine a lot of data

333
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and for the machine to learn from context.

334
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So the unsupervised learning is really what we hope to achieve in the future.

335
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If machine can have unsupervised learning, then we don't need humans explicitly teaching machines all the time,

336
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this is humor, this is happiness and all that. That would save a lot of effort from the human annotators.

337
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Unsupervised learning is harder tho because it will require a lot of general learning abilities

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and general deduction abilities, induction. I believe it will require machines to have multi-sensory input.

339
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Speaker 1: Do we know how unsupervised learning is working?.

340
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Speaker 2: So cognitive scientists have been studying how humans learn. They believe that humans have ..

341
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Of course we are born with some kind of learning abilities, innate.

342
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When babies are born they already know how to recognize their mothers faces and voices.

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They are already picking up from 10 months in the mothers tummy..

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Speaker 1: Lets just [inaudible 00:31:05] .. Do we know how people learn unsupervised?

345
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Speaker 2: We don't know exactly how we learn unsupervised. We're trying to model that.

346
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So another side of working on robots is that

347
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when we want to build robots to be more human like we have to build models of human thinking.

348
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As we research how to make robots that have a sense of humor we understand human sense of humor better.

349
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As we learn, as the machines learn, we also learn how we function.

350
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We don't know exactly how we learn in unsupervised fashion but we're trying to research on that.

351
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That's a very important research direction.

352
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Speaker 1: There's a lot of talk about artificial intelligence,

353
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what is let's say the condition of having an artificial intelligence system in your opinion...

354
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Speaker 2: The condition of artificial intelligence .. We are trying to ..

355
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Working towards what some people call a strong AI which is a general purpose AI system or general purpose robot.

356
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Today we're only working, we're still only working on single purpose or multipurpose robots that can do one task.

357
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You've heard of [inaudible 00:32:25] beating world champion [inaudible 00:32:27]

358
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and their systems that can lift heavy weights and assemble cars. These are all single purposes robotic systems.

359
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So we are working towards a general purpose robotics system that can really be your companion and take care of people.

360
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In that case, the robot must have intelligence to be more human like. For human intelligence, empathy is indispensable.

361
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It must recognize not just what people are saying but how people are saying it, what you truly mean.

362
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So empathy is important. Emotional intelligence is a huge part of human intelligence.

363
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Speaker 1: You suggest then couldn't be intelligence without [crosstalk 00:33:08]

364
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Speaker 2: We cannot call a system or robot, human like intelligence without empathy.

365
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Speaker 1: Is that what is lacking somehow in the discussion?

366
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Speaker 2: It has been lacking in our discussion of building AI systems for the last 30 years, but it's coming now.

367
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I'm happy to say I've been talking about it and some other researchers are also working on this..

368
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Speaker 1: And because you are working in this field [crosstalk 00:33:38]

369
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Speaker 2: That is a new direction and people in general agree with this direction so yeah,

370
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research is working towards this goal as well. There is agreement in terms of that.

371
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Speaker 1: Can you imagine people being afraid of you know, this huge intelligent network that is going to conquer us

372
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or something like that?

373
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Speaker 2: I think people are afraid of the unknown. People are always afraid of the unknown.

374
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I think if we go back in time, 1950's and describe today's internet and smartphones and how we use them

375
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and how we can get access to good material as well as bad material at your fingertips.

376
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If we told people in the 50's about this today,

377
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they would also be very very afraid.	What happens is that we adapt to technology just like technology adapts to us.

378
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It doesn't happen overnight.

379
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We've been living with artificial intelligence for long time already starting with all those automatic calculators

380
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and then we take airplane without being afraid that it's being flown a computer actually.	So we've been living with

381
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artificial intelligence for a long time its just gradually we are going to get used to the evolution of such

382
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intelligent machines.

383
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They will gradually be able to talk to us and they will gradually be able to empathize with our feelings

384
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and they will gradually be able to do more to help us.

385
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We'll get used to them step by step, it doesn't happen overnight.?

386
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Speaker 1: What would be the ultimate condition to generate, let's say artificial intelligence [inaudible 00:35:26]

387
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We already [inaudible 00:35:28] it's no problem.

388
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Can you talk about robots with a heart, can you talk a little more about the necessity of this heart?

389
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Speaker 2: Yes, so without empathy in the robot a robot would never behave and learn and understand like a human being.

390
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So without empathy I would say that the robot would not be human like and that intelligence would be limited.

391
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Speaker 1: So you think it is of the utmost importance of the entire discussion about artificial intelligence also.

392
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should include ..

393
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Speaker 2: The entire discussion of artificial intelligence does include that today.

394
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I'm one of the people who champion it

395
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and in general there is a general agreement that it is needed for artificial intelligence.

396
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People work on different components of artificial intelligence.

397
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Those of us work on the emotion recognition certainly see this as our job to make that happen,

398
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to make robots have empathy.

399
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Speaker 1: If you could lets say, look further

400
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and further into the future can you imagine there is a combination of humans and robots

401
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and artificial intelligence that goes beyond the stars for example or whatsoever?

402
00:36:48,45 --> 00:36:53,36
It's larger than we are [inaudible 00:36:55] it's intention is [crosstalk 00:36:57] can you imagine?

403
00:36:53,36 --> 00:37:05,33
Speaker 2: Yes what's interesting today, what's happening already is my mind

404
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and your mind are no longer limited by our own life experience.

405
00:37:11,46 --> 00:37:16,76
Twenty years ago I wouldn't know how to respond to a lot of questions that I'm not an expert in.

406
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Today anybody with access to the internet

407
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and Wikipedia can tell you a lot of things about a specific topic.	Our human mind and our human knowledge has evolved.

408
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We're already connected to this vast network of minds so you can pull up YouTube video to learn how to cook any kind of

409
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food.

410
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You can pull up Wikipedia page to learn about any particular technical topic or political topic or some history

411
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and that happens instantaneously. So is that part of my mind already or part of the world?	We already are connected.

412
00:37:56,1 --> 00:38:03,84
So in the future when robots enhance our physical abilities they will also enhance our mental abilities.

413
00:38:03,92 --> 00:38:08,57
When that happens, there will be basically, on top of the internet we have access to,

414
00:38:08,57 --> 00:38:14,98
we also have these robots that enhance our ability to understand the knowledge.

415
00:38:15,91 --> 00:38:20,65
That will be another layer of intelligence that enhances human intelligence.

416
00:38:20,95 --> 00:38:27,3
Just like today there's robotic systems that help people who cannot walk, walk.

417
00:38:27,63 --> 00:38:34,3
Those exoskeleton robots that can help people become stronger physically.

418
00:38:34,3 --> 00:38:41,98
Robots can also enhance our intelligence to enable us to know more to be able to do more and think better,

419
00:38:41,98 --> 00:38:45,33
with the the help of the robots.

420
00:38:45,33 --> 00:38:52,38
Speaker 1: Earlier on I asked you your wildest dreams can you explain a little bit more intensely what your wildest

421
00:38:52,38 --> 00:38:53,38
dream is?

422
00:38:53,38 --> 00:39:04,24
Speaker 2: To build robots with all the components of human intelligence, human learning abilities, human perception,

423
00:39:04,25 --> 00:39:12,54
human memories and human judgment, human values. So a long list of these things.

424
00:39:14,07 --> 00:39:21,6
My wildest dream will be able to do that and teach that to robot. For example for a robot to copy all that from me.

425
00:39:22,32 --> 00:39:34,77
My personal experience, my memory, my judgment, my values, which evolve as well. It's like a copy of a person, of me.

426
00:39:35,11 --> 00:39:42,07
When I'm not around that copy will continue, maybe continue to talk to my children's children.

427
00:39:42,19 --> 00:39:45,66
They know it's not me, they know it's not mommy but its a copy.

428
00:39:45,66 --> 00:39:55,88
That will be interesting to replicate before I die so I see if it's really me or not..

429
00:39:53,49 --> 00:39:55,66
Speaker 1: It's a replica? That's actually what you ..

430
00:39:55,88 --> 00:40:03,42
Speaker 2: A replicant? Yeah you've seen Blade Runner right? I'm a huge fan of Blade Runner.

431
00:40:03,42 --> 00:40:08,42
Yeah my wildest dream will have replicants but replicants also know they are replicants.

432
00:40:08,42 --> 00:40:16,28
They don't fool people into thinking they are human beings.

433
00:40:16,28 --> 00:40:17,28
Speaker 1:  [inaudible 00:40:20]

434
00:40:17,28 --> 00:40:22,48
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be me, it can be anybody.

435
00:40:22,48 --> 00:40:32,5
Speaker 1: If you copy let's say your intentions, your information somehow, what would it be? Would it be you?

436
00:40:32,5 --> 00:40:34,09
What do you think?

437
00:40:34,09 --> 00:40:41,03
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm curious to know. If that happens would that be me?

438
00:40:41,03 --> 00:40:47,16
Would that be just a copy of me?	I can say that today we have people who can build a robot that physically looks like

439
00:40:47,16 --> 00:40:55,34
me, exactly a copy of me but intelligent wise, memory and all that its not close.

440
00:40:55,34 --> 00:41:05,82
It's still very very far from being a complete copy of a real human being.	If we have more of a almost perfect copy

441
00:41:05,82 --> 00:41:10,85
would that still be just a copy? I think its just a copy, its not me.

442
00:41:10,85 --> 00:41:12,03
Speaker 1: It's not a wish for immortality?

443
00:41:12,03 --> 00:41:13,81
Speaker 2: No, it would be my avatar I would say.

444
00:41:13,81 --> 00:41:22,16
That would be avatar at the physical and mental level but still an avatar.

445
00:41:22,16 --> 00:41:24,23
Speaker 1: Not the real you.

446
00:41:24,23 --> 00:41:29,9
Speaker 2: Not the real me. Maybe it can do the tasks that I can do, I don't know.

447
00:41:29,91 --> 00:41:33,58
Maybe it can continue to teach but it would be an avatar.

448
00:41:33,58 --> 00:41:42,44
Speaker 1: Would it be something like a 3D or 4D photograph of you somehow for your children or grandchildren?

449
00:41:42,44 --> 00:41:48,48
Speaker 2: I am actually thinking it's going to be a physical body with very human like skin

450
00:41:48,48 --> 00:41:51,15
and very human like everything.

451
00:41:51,58 --> 00:42:05,74
There are people working on building that so I think it's entirely possible in 20 years..

452
00:41:58,59 --> 00:42:05,5
The body is possible, but the mind, because we don't understand the mind completely so how ..

453
00:42:06,22 --> 00:42:07,79
Component by component,

454
00:42:07,85 --> 00:42:15,09
module by module we're building the mind into the robot	Today were still talking about service robots

455
00:42:15,09 --> 00:42:22,94
and home robots that do particular tasks. We're still not building a general purpose human like robot like a replicant.

456
00:42:23,26 --> 00:42:24,62
We're not doing that yet.

457
00:42:25,08 --> 00:42:33,94
We don't have an interest in doing that it would be more like a scientific pursuit because we don't know what we need.

458
00:42:33,94 --> 00:42:40,75
Why do we need a general purpose robot, that is exactly like me? What is the application of that?.

459
00:42:39,43 --> 00:42:40,75
There's no application except that ..

460
00:42:40,75 --> 00:42:49,56
That would serve us like a scientific quest rather than engineering application, rather than commercial purpose,

461
00:42:49,56 --> 00:42:50,81
its a scientific quest.

462
00:42:51,31 --> 00:42:53,86
As I mentioned earlier, when we study robot,

463
00:42:53,86 --> 00:43:01,17
when we model intelligence for robot we are also modeling human intelligence, we're studying humans at the same time

464
00:43:01,46 --> 00:43:02,99
and that is interesting to me.

465
00:43:02,99 --> 00:43:08,83
Speaker 1: Some people could say she has been reading too many science fiction.

466
00:43:08,83 --> 00:43:09,84
Speaker 2:  (laughter) yes some people will say that.

467
00:43:09,84 --> 00:43:14,08
But you know, many people who work artificial intelligence are huge science fiction fans.

468
00:43:14,08 --> 00:43:18,51
We are just naturally attracted to science fiction since we were young

469
00:43:18,51 --> 00:43:22,75
and then we got into this area because of that.	Many of us are, many.

470
00:43:22,75 --> 00:43:24,71
Speaker 1: To make it into reality?

471
00:43:24,71 --> 00:43:26,74
Speaker 2: Yeah, to make it into reality.

472
00:43:26,74 --> 00:43:33,71
It's fair to say that a lot of our imagination are shaped by science fiction we grew up with.

473
00:43:34,2 --> 00:43:40,36
So you will see things that look science fiction like and its not a coincidence it's just we're shaped by that.